2016 and Beyond Speculation at SFGA

[KK456]

^That last part is most certainly true.

 

I have a feeling that since they're resurrecting an entire portion of the park, they're going to add something big. At this point, an RMC or a Wingrider (lift or launched) are equally likely; Just because SF hasn't invested much into each ride for a while doesn't mean they can't now. There have been instances throughout history where a park has shocked the public by installing a ride no one ever expected; Six Flags with Kingda Ka, for example, or King's Dominion with Intimidator 305 (few people thought KD would even get a hyper, let alone a giga).

 

Remember guys, all of these guesses are based on no solid evidence; these are just what we think would be a good fit, at a good price for the park. Let this debate begin once we get the first few teasers . I'm not locking in my prediction just yet.

[truepolak90]

The rumors have begun!! Source: Screamscape

 

2016 - New Roller Coaster - Rumor - (5/5/15) A series of photos posted to the "Six Flags Great Adventure Insider Updates" shows off not only the park's new El Diablo super loop under construction, but some Surveyor equipment elsewhere in the park which apparently is somewhere between the water tower and the Picnic Grove.

This is where things get interesting however, as one rumor for 2016 coming to light suggests that the park may be planning on adding their own B&M Launched Wing Coaster, similar in Holiday World's Thunderbird. According to the rumor, one line of thought may be to somehow reuse the old Chiller station structure for the new coaster (it's wide enough, as it did used to hold two side-by-side launched coasters) and maybe even have the coaster launch out and through the old Observatory structure, which is also still standing, with the rest of the layout running somewhere between here and the water tower area and back.
Sounds like a an interesting idea to me, as it would be nice to see this section of the park brought back to life again. We'll have to wait and see what other rumors develop this season.

Now I know that everyone is saying we have way to many B&M coasters, and as much as I agree with that the GP won't care or be bothered with that fact. A wing rider will be a hit and well finally have a inverting and *reliable* launched coaster on top of a much needed new coaster in Movie town/ Old Country. Also a launched wing rider will offer a different experience to the other coasters and compliment our ride line up. There are many possibilities with this new ride for all we know it can even interact with the main park entrance and they could possibly do something similar to Gate keeper. I just hope that they decide to throw in a flat or two because there isn't any in movie town. This could also explain why the park went with such a cheap and small addition this year with El Diablo. Also, if this is a wing rider I hope that the park will start leaning towards RMC and Intamin for their future additions down the road lol.

[hollyferry]

I'm just happy they repainted the water tower :-)

[ScreamSource]

^true

[KK456]

Now that I look at the whole launched wingrider thing, I realize something. A coaster takes about 2 years on average to plan. Theoretically, that would mean that whatever we're getting was in the making since 2013, and Holiday started planning Thunderbird around 2012. Before Thunderbird, a launched wingrider, let alone a LAUNCHED B&M WINGRIDER was completely and entirely out of the realm of discussion. I don't think SF even knew about this concept when they started planning for 2016 in 2013, so perhaps we can eliminate a launched wingrider. They would have to have started planning in 2014 (when Thunderbird was announced), and hypothetically we would get one of these in 2017, which does not fit the puzzle.

[Nitro1118]

Now that I look at the whole launched wingrider thing, I realize something. A coaster takes about 2 years on average to plan. Theoretically, that would mean that whatever we're getting was in the making since 2013, and Holiday started planning Thunderbird around 2012. Before Thunderbird, a launched wingrider, let alone a LAUNCHED B&M WINGRIDER was completely and entirely out of the realm of discussion. I don't think SF even knew about this concept when they started planning for 2016 in 2013, so perhaps we can eliminate a launched wingrider. They would have to have started planning in 2014 (when Thunderbird was announced), and hypothetically we would get one of these in 2017, which does not fit the puzzle.

That doesn't really make sense. I am not in the camp that believes a launched wingrider is coming, but I am 110% sure SF has known for years B&M was capable of the concept. Sure, they wouldn't have Thunderbird to go off of as a proof of concept, but that can be said for many concepts SF has introduced or improvised on.

[KK456]

Sure, they likely knew it was possible, but then again there was no proof of concept. Most rides that are prototypes have problems, and 11 times out of 10 they are surpassed in every statistic. I don't think they thought a launched wingrider was necessary at all for any of their parks, but Thunderbird's tremendous success (so far) will certainly change things in the future.

[Nitro1118]

Sure, they likely knew it was possible, but then again there was no proof of concept. Most rides that are prototypes have problems, and 11 times out of 10 they are surpassed in every statistic. I don't think they thought a launched wingrider was necessary at all for any of their parks, but Thunderbird's tremendous success (so far) will certainly change things in the future.

SF has pioneered the inverted coaster, floorless coaster, 4D coaster, has been the only company thus far to try an RMC conversion...they didn't need the proof of concept. And none of the technology used is new, either.

 

I stand by the opinion that SF has strayed away from wingriders due the millions they have been saving with RMC.

 

Also, a large portion of Thunderbird's reception is due to the park it is in. They put a ton of work into the theme elements as well as tremendous placement. Hence, every comment I hear about it is, "Holiday World did a great job with Thunderbird!" and not, "Wow, Thunderbird is a top 10 coaster!" Plop the same ride in a SF park with half the theming elements and worse scenery and you would see the reception still be positive, but a lot more lukewarm.

[KK456]

^There have definitely been positive reception to the ride's layout. Sure, the theming is well executed and the placement is fantastic, but the ride itself was incredibly designed and makes the most of it's layout. It has a nice mix of forces, with snappy transitions, pops of airtime in certain elements, and lots of sustained g's; I know several people who have either blacked out or greyed out several times on the ride. Much of Thunderbird's reputation is built because of the park, but the ride itself is equally as well praised.

 

As for your first point, true that no technology on the ride was new, but the amazing thing is that you have a launch and the intensity with B&M's level of engineering. Almost all launch coasters have had major mechanical issues (our launched coaster included), but B&M is capable of creating systems so reliable they seldom break down for long. I guarantee that Thunderbird will never be plagued with the issues that most launched coasters have.

 

I completely agree with the second point. RMC's have been such a win-win for the parks it's unbelievable. They only have to spend 10-15 million dollars, and they get a world-class ride out of it. It brings new life to older attractions as well, bringing old woodies to the elite class of some parks. It's also good for enthusiasts and even the GP too.

[Nitro1118]

I am nit going to argue Thunderbird anymore...I am sure it is a nice coaster, but I think you are taking the hype of it a little farther than it probably deserves. But we can agree to disagree.

 

One thing you have to understand, though...B&M did NOT build or design the LIM systems. They hire an outside company to do that work. Also, it is very ignorant to say almost all launched coasters, ever, have had major mechanical issues. Huge advancements have been made in the 18 years Chiller was built. Heck, even in the 10 years since Ka was built. LIM technology is quite reliable nowadays. Sure, maybe a small breakdown here or there, but nothing major.

[Railer]

I don't know what Ka has to do with anything with LIM'a on it, closest thing to a LIM on Ka is it's magnetic brakes. But i think with Six Flags with the way they spend now, the ONLY big $$$ coaster they would spend on would be a B&M, especially at our Park, our B&M's have had exceptional reliability. Besides some "chain breaks" and lift motor problems, we have had no extended downtime on any of them. And our park needs the capacity they all offer, a Wingrider in our park would be another "people eater". What my point is, is that we would be one of the only park's they would spend big $$$ on a Coaster, and it would never be from Intamin, or anyone else (in B&M's price range) I wouldn't be surprised at all if they announced a Wingrider with what the current situation is in that section of the Park. Nothing would fit better than that, and it actually would be cheaper than doing it anywhere else, with them being able to re-use a lot.

[KK456]

I'm well aware that Intrasys supplied the launch components, but the configuration and the specifics were arranged by B&M. Also, I said almost all launched coasters, not all. Kingda Ka, TTD, Maverick, Xcelerator, Chiller, etc. have all experienced lots of downtime throughout the years. LIM's are still unreliable and take up a lot of electricity (the LIM system on Chiller was an enormous issue), hence the switch to LSM's, which are much, much more reliable and energy efficient. Even Premier no longer uses LIM's. But nowadays yes, breakdowns are much less common, but launched coasters have been and perhaps always will be less reliable than their chain-powered counterparts.

 

Either way, all of this started because Chiller's station is simply wide enough for wingrider trains. There is absolutely no concrete evidence that a wingrider, let alone a coaster is in the works, and we are simply stating what is possible for 2016. I'm done debating for now, but once there is solid evidence of a coaster for 2016 I'm all up for discussion.

 

 

^By the way, Kingda Ka doesn't use LIMs. The magnetic fins are their own category.

Edited May 7, 2015 by KK456

[Nitro1118]

I don't know what Ka has to do with anything with LIM'a on it, closest thing to a LIM on Ka is it's magnetic brakes.

Read what I quoted...he didn't say "All LIM/LSM coasters have had major mechanical problems." He said all launched coasters, period. And I only brought up KK in terms of time reference to show that times have changed regarding the launched coaster concept and it's been a decade plus since those rides with major issues were built.

 

 

^KK456, all those coasters except Maverick were built over 10 years ago. There are over 80 coasters with LIM/LSM technology. I do not consider a breakdown here or there a "major mechanical problem," nor do I put most all of those 80 coasters in thst category. How often do you hear Cheetah Hunt having significant downtime? ISpeed? Helix? It's very rare. Keep in mind, many of these rides have 2, even 3 launches with little issue.

 

I think it is very telling B&M have jumped on the launch bandwagon. They waited 20 years, but are finally comfortable enough with the technology's reliability that they put their name on it. It is a very exciti g development, especially if they apply it to their inverted or floorless coasters.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Nitro1118

[KK456]

Even the more recent launched coasters have had issues. Formula Rossa had major issues with the hydraulic system before it opened, and it took them a very long time to get it running at top speed. Ring Racer was a disaster. Yes, launch technology has become much more refined, but many launch coasters still have issues. They simply aren't as reliable and consistent, with most launch (especially coasters with much more complex systems like air-pressure systems or hydraulics) coasters break down much more frequently than chain lifted coasters, which is a problem.

[Mrpq]

Not to keep dragging this topic on BUT I have been wondering, in terms of launch systems used Is there any reason B&M went with the system they did vs the system used on the Hulk? is it maybe an issue with the amount of energy used to power system or can they not get enough power out of them? Cant really say I hear of much down time on the HULK

 

Also has anyone considered the new solar panels could have something to do with a new coaster? maybe use some of the energy from the panels to power,lets say a launch coaster? Just thinking out loud

[Nitro1118]

Even the more recent launched coasters have had issues. Formula Rossa had major issues with the hydraulic system before it opened, and it took them a very long time to get it running at top speed. Ring Racer was a disaster. Yes, launch technology has become much more refined, but many launch coasters still have issues. They simply aren't as reliable and consistent, with most launch (especially coasters with much more complex systems like air-pressure systems or hydraulics) coasters break down much more frequently than chain lifted coasters, which is a problem.

I don't put a ton of stock into the issues of TTD/KK/Formula Rossa. They are major outliers in terms of the boundaries they push the launch systems.

 

But, yes, launched coasters do break down more often than traditional coasters. My biggest complaint was with your wording of "most all" and "major mechanical problems." My point was that newer launched coasters, specifically LIM/LSM coasters, are generally not plagued with the issues that rides like Chiller experienced.

 

Anyway, back on topic...does anyone have a good aerial picture of the area the park is surveying. I got a good sense of its size, but aerials give a much better picture.

[Railer]

Surprisingly, there are not that many aerial shot's of that area (that i have found yet anyway) But it's the area, below, and to the rt of the Tower in this pic. You can see where the back end of Showcase is to get a "perspective" . And when i saw the crews last Fri, they were right inside the Fence that runs along the side of the woods by the Parking Lot. There are quite a few smaller garages and storage shed's, and a couple smaller, what look like Water Tanks close to the Fence also in there. But it is quite a big chunk of land that is mostly un-used.

 

 

This is VERY, VERY, crude, and is totally based on speculation. But with where they were surveying last week, how much they would save with re-using alot, and just how perfect of a fit it would be. This is why i am leaning so strongly that when we do get a new coaster, a launched Wingrider is what it will be. It would really change the Skyline pulling in the lot also, with new life on that quiet side of the lot.

 

 

And a good thing with this layout is that it would only need to worry about guest's under the Track at 2 point's. Most of it runs in "backstage" area's. That is a big issue with the State.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Railer

[rcji]

^Can't get the image upload to work but I was going to use a current aerial view via Google Earth. You can see everything much easier

[Chrislovescoasters]

Now I know im bringing back a old rumor from screamscape but I remembered them saying a rumor about a 4D B&M

[jdc12192]

I was all on this end of the speculation until I found out what I did..... Now I'm starting to think those markings and future 'digging' aren't for anything major and 2016 may be in a different area.

[Nitro1118]

Thanks for the pictures, Railer. I assumed the bulk of the surveying was in that forest area between the water tower and Freefall. I didn't realize it went all the way by the fence, and quite how large of an area we are talking about. Between Chiller/Musik Express/Freefall's footprints and the surveying, that is a huge area.

[KK456]

You know, I have a source telling me that there are solar panel contractors in the park. Maybe that's what the action in Old Country is for?

[Mrpq]

My feeling that is link in same shape or form

[RADZADcoasters]

You know, I have a source telling me that there are solar panel contractors in the park. Maybe that's what the action in Old Country is for?

I'm pretty sure the article said 100 acres, and that's almost 2 times the size of the parking lot. Chances are in old country, they are making a new ride called night wing as a launched B&M

[gencx]

I thought it was confirmed the solar panels won't be in the park.